Poll on post-1975 Miles

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Jon Abbey
I don't think I knew until you posted that they weren't available at the time.

I think they were released in Japan shortly after they were recorded, but not elsewhere until years later.

[lazarus]

"Dark Magus", "Pangaea" and "Black Beauty" were japan-only releases in the 70´s and was released outside Japan for the first time in the 90´s ("Pangaea" in early 90´s and the other two in late 90´s).
"Agharta" was a worldwide release in mid-70´s.

[mke]

Originally posted by Jon Abbey
mke, I'm not talking about the second quintet, that's a different period. BB and ISAW are studio projects, I was more talking about his live bands of that era, specifically on At Fillmore and Black Beauty, his live bands in 1970.

I realised it wasn't about the 2nd Quintet, I just wanted to give a sense of progression.

I note the live/studio differentiation. Even then, by 1973 his band was pretty much all-black.

What about the 80s? It seems to me that the black quotient remained high (going on a concert video I saw (but didn't hear, as the sound was off) at a club once).

"I think the racial composition of these specific bands is interesting to note because to my ears, it's an instance where the results of the music perfectly fit with the prevailing stereotypes."

Against your wishes, I'm curious what stereotypes those were.

[Jon Abbey]

I've said what I had to say on the topic, sorry.

[mke]

Originally posted by Jon Abbey
I've said what I had to say on the topic, sorry.

You tease.

[lazarus]

Originally posted by Nick
Does anyone have a picture they can post of the 74-75 band with Lucas and Cozy? I don't think I've ever seen one.

from the insert of original japanese vinyledition of Pangaea




inside 90´s cd-issue of Dark Magus (this is not the real Dark Magus line-up)

[walto]

These paeons to Agharta et al seem really strange to me. My only problem with the earlier bands was Grossman. Fotunately, a lot of his solos were cut out/short on the recordings. The rest of those guys were terrific. Not always the case with the 1974-5 groups, IMHO.

[Nick]

Thanks lazarus

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Jon Abbey
but I highly doubt there were any white players in James Brown's bands of that era or P-Funk, Booker T and the MG's isn't the same thing. I think the racial composition of these specific bands is interesting to note because to my ears, it's an instance where the results of the music perfectly fit with the prevailing stereotypes.

I know this is a sensitive topic, so I won't address anything beyond the specific composition of the bands cited, but I think Jon is right - I know that Funkadelic in their glory days had a white guitarist on one album, but (I think) only for that one (I don't recall offhand which one, but he was cited in the liner notes as "Token White Devil"), and the Brecker Bros. were in the studio horn section for the glory days of Parliament's studio work (e.g. Mothership Connection). Beyond that, I think whites were few and far between in P-Funk and, I suspect, James' bands as well (especially since there was a degree over carryover, including both Maceo and Bootsy).

[mke]

I wonder if in 10 years the consensual view on his 80s output will shift, as it has with his 70s work.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by mke
I wonder if in 10 years the consensual view on his 80s output will shift, as it has with his 70s work.

I've heard at least a couple of peeps whose opinions I respect praise Aura. I used to own a copy of Star People, but I never did get into it.

[GA Russell]

I enjoy Live Around the World, but haven't found another album of that era that pleases me as much. So I voted for the "Much is mediocre" option.

[Uli]

fweiw I always loved "We want Miles"

Jean Pierre. baby!

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Tanager
I've heard at least a couple of peeps whose opinions I respect praise Aura.

Aura is an anomaly because it is Palle Mikkeborg's concept & music, and is a tribute to Miles' 2nd quintet and earlier electric work. McLaughlin is excellent on that one.

[lazarus]

Originally posted by Uli
fweiw I always loved "We want Miles"

Jean Pierre. baby!

Yes! "We Want Miles" is an excellent live album!

[walto]

Are there any plans that anybody knows about to release the material on "Live at Fillmore East" in a more sensible fashion? Or maybe all of it?

Thanks.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Originally posted by Squaredancecalling Steve
With "In A Silent Way" (1969) I knew he was beginning to lose my interest (I like the album better now than I did then), and with "Bitches' Brew" (later the same year) I parted company with Miles for good. I admit I haven't heard a lot of the later material, but what I have heard hasn't encouraged me to hear more.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Pete C
Knowing the catholicity and integrity of your taste, I'm surprised. Have you listened to Live Evil or On the Corner recently?

Thanks, and no and no. I'll keep my eyes open for used copies. At the time, I lumped e-Miles with the rest of what I saw as the wrong-headed turn to fusion (holding Miles culpable as one of the ringleaders), and tried to ignore it.

[Egon]

Yes late Miles, or no late Miles, it doesn't matter. The best thing about Miles' later work is simply the fact that he was changing. Sure, it might not be the highest quality.....but you can't deny that it was pushing forward and fresh. And that is certainly more than you can say about any other musician from Miles' generation.

[graypencil]

I think Tutu was a great job ..

Marcus Miller really managed to achieve something akin to what Gil Evens might have done were he still around at the time ..

[gonzo]

i have alot of euro and japan concerts from 71 to 75 and find stuff on all of them to love. after that era i love "we want miles". i also feel that about 90%
of "tutu"was really good. liked amandla and wish that warners had made this miles last release because theres not alot of "doo bop" that i dig.
i'd like hear the live recordings from miles spring of 83 japan tour featuring both scofield and stern as i have heard that the shows were spectacular.

[crookednumbers]

I enjoyed some of "Aura", but for the most part, I don't need to hear anything after his "retirement".

Especially "Doo-Bop".

[walto]

Not that it matters to the point Jon was trying to make, but it's not the case that Corea replaced Jarrett between Fillmore and Black Beauty. They were both in the Fillmore group. (That's what I like about most about that disc. FWIW, I don't think it's got anything to do with race that makes each of those guys a better keyboard player than Miles. Losing Grossman was a major plus, Losing Holland was probably a wash--the guy who replaced him was very good--but losing both of those keyboard players was, to me, a big minus.)

[mke]

Originally Posted by walto

FWIW, I don't think it's got anything to do with race that makes each of those guys a better keyboard player than Miles.

Did anyone suggest otherwise?

[walto]

I'm not exactly sure. It seemed like that was one of the theories being floated.

[adh]

I just couldn't get on with Bobby Irving III(were the other 2 as tasteless aswell)or the drum programming.Aura is nice,but that has an 80's production aswell(Mikkelborg spoiled some of his own releases with dodgy synths).
I know it's academic but does anyone think,had he lived,that he'd have come back into "the tradition" as he got older-got over the "curse" and revisited the acoustic setting?

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by adh

I know it's academic but does anyone think,had he lived,that he'd have come back into "the tradition" as he got older-got over the "curse" and revisited the acoustic setting?

Not me.

[baksheesh]

I'd just say, for anyone who hasn't heard the stuff on the Montreux box - It will (or should) completely change your perspective on this era o' Miles. The band with Sco was utterly smoking! The only real issues I have are with those limp pop tunes - Human Nature & Time After Time - delete those and you have a vital, up beat, storming band, with great musicians. Sco in particular was Fierce! at this stage - exhilerating, angular, biting & ballsy, the rhythm section was really cooking, and Miles was there (a bit like Agharta/Pangaea where he only plays a bit, but it's all about the band).

I think a key thing to note is that Miles is one of the very few guys ever who could get a bag of cats to all eat the same catfood. He marshalled all these great musicians, each of them going on to be leaders and getting major respect in their own right, but they all followed his vision when they played with him. In the '80s, live, that was a powerful vision. Just wasn't served by the studio albums.
I've reevaluated his '80s music in the light of the Montreux performances, and I now think it was a case of the bad old '80s killing stuff in the studio.

[bigtiny]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

mke, I'm not talking about the second quintet, that's a different period. BB and ISAW are studio projects, I was more talking about his live bands of that era, specifically on At Fillmore and Black Beauty, his live bands in 1970.

At Fillmore:

Miles Davis _-_ Trumpet
Jack DeJohnette _-_ Drums
Dave Holland _-_ Bass (Electric), Guitar (Bass), Bass (Acoustic)
Keith Jarrett _-_ Organ
Steve Grossman _-_ Sax (Soprano)
Airto Moreira _-_ Percussion

Black Beauty:

same band except Corea instead of Jarrett.

Fillmore is Jarrett AND Corea. Jarrett left between this gig and Black Beauty (which is live at Fillmore in San Fran)

bigtiny

[bigtiny]

I voted 'other'. I don't think any of Miles' post retirement work comes close to the intensity or quality of his pre retirement stuff. There ARE a few things I liked:

-I was at a couple of the shows at Kix in Boston where some of the 'We Want Miles' album was recorded. I think this was BY FAR his best post retirement band and presentation. Great players, and a lean, raw sound that had a nice growl to it. And versatile -- 'Back Seat Betty', 'Jean Pierre', and 'My Man's Gone Now' all from We Want Miles, all cook, and are quite distinct stylistically. I saw this band at least three times and they burned.

-I found 'Star People' pretty boring, and as much as I think he's a good musician, I hate listening to Scofield.

-The rest of the Columbias are a waste of vinyle as far as I'm concerned

-Tutu had some groovy little tunes on it, but it was horribly over-produced and generally just kind of laid there

and I don't think Miles would have EVER returned to his acoustic, straight ahead days.....no matter how long he lived

bigtiny

[Pete C]

Overall my favorite post-1975 Miles recordings are the projects outside his performing band: Aura and the soundtracks for Siesta and The Hot Spot.